Ask Elisa Podcast

PODCAST EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

It’s Ask Elisa, a podcast about dating and relationships. I’m your host, Elisa Sparkman. Today I have a very special Halloween episode with my theater friend, Hailey.

Oh my gosh, hi. Thanks so much for coming. I’m so happy to be here.

It’s an honor, first ever podcast. Wow. So the exciting thing about Hailey is she’s our youngest guest.

I know. She’s one of my kids slash also a friend. I was thinking about that too.

You’ve only had older people on here. I’m ready to take the mantle. I’m ready to be here.

Please share with us your year of birth. 2003. That’s the year I graduated from high school.

Huzzah. This wouldn’t be a theater kid episode if somebody didn’t huzzah. Yeah.

So yeah, Hailey is 22, almost 23. December. We are buddies.

Sagittarius. Of course. That’s why I’m a spitfire.

Yeah. Yeah. I’m actually not.

I just, I’m not, I don’t, how did I even know that? Like I’m not, I’m not really an astrology person, but. I don’t know. I feel like.

Oh, because I have a good friend who’s Sagittarius too. Yeah. I don’t know.

I know mine, but I don’t know the months. But when people say theirs, I’m like, yeah, I get that. Yeah, I mean, so I’m like, totally, yeah.

Like, yeah. Baseline. Yeah, you sound like that.

I’ll take that answer. I don’t really believe in astrology, but then when I’m like looking at the three things together, I’m like, whoa, that is exactly me. That sounds like me.

How did they know that, right? No, for real. So we’re not here today to talk about this kind of woo-woo stuff. We’re here to talk about the movie Obsession.

Dude. I love scary movies so much. I like Halloween.

I like spooky time of year. I like spooky stuff a lot, but I love scary movies. But I love scary movies that have a bit of a social commentary or a cultural critique on top of that.

I think those are some of the best ones, honestly. They are the best ones. I love them.

And so I absolutely love Obsession for this. And like a year ago, I saw an ad, a trailer for Obsession. And I was like, oh my god, I can’t wait for that.

See, I was on the other side of the spectrum of it because I watched it later after it had come out, and I got to hear people’s reviews of it. I didn’t get any spoilers or anything, but I was super interested in the story and everything. And I saw it later.

I watched it so that we could talk about it during the show. And then it took a couple of weeks for us to come together. But oh my gosh.

Yeah, well, OK, first of all, there are going to be spoilers in this podcast episode. Yeah, I hope you saw it. And I also want to say that this podcast episode is sponsored by an amazing restaurant in Lakewood, Washington called Manic Meatballs.

Big shout out to Manic Meatballs for sponsoring this episode with Hailey. Thank you so much. Your meatballs were delicious.

OK, let me tell you about Manic Meatballs. Manic Meatballs owner, Carrie, is a wonderful human. And she’s really fun to watch on social media.

So you should follow at Manic Meatballs on social media, TikTok especially, and Instagram and stuff. And it is a quick service meatball restaurant. Yes, meatballs.

And it’s right along I-5. It’s a perfect place to stop. It has a drive-thru.

And what quick service means is not what you think. I mean, it’s all homemade delicious food. And the way that you get to put your meal together is they have a base to choose from.

So you can either choose mashed potatoes, egg noodles, or rice. And then you can choose your type of meatball. And the meatball comes with its sauce or gravy.

So there’s Italian meatballs, the traditional Swedish meatballs. The bacon-wrapped ones looked so good. Oh, there’s bacon-wrapped meatballs.

Yeah. And then they have a meatball of the month every month. And they come up with really fun flavors and stuff.

Oh, my goodness. And then I believe they have chicken meatballs. They have vegetarian meatballs.

Yeah, it looked like they had vegan options, if I’m not mistaken. Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah, they have something for everybody.

So you choose your base, your meatball, and then you get to choose sides. And they have a lot of delicious sides. I love their baked beans.

I want to say they’re probably the second best baked beans, only second best to my own. I don’t usually like baked beans. But I was like, those were good baked beans.

Yeah, so good. And they have deviled eggs, fries, this cucumber salad that’s really yummy, and coleslaw. And sometimes they, oh, shells and cheese.

Sometimes I’m just like, I want comfort food. And so I’m like, I want mashed potatoes, meatballs, gravy, shells and cheese, and baked beans. But I also love to get the green beans, because I just feel like that’s a very classic meal.

And then they have dessert, Oreo balls and cheesecake balls. So good. And then they’re Viking-themed.

If you go inside, like I said, there’s a drive-through. But inside, they have a cool Viking boat that you can sit in. It’s a really cool place to go with kids, I think.

They would really love that, sit in the boat. And then they have a fun little merch. They have a lot of really fun merch.

So there’s fun stuff to look at in the store. It’s a really nice indoor space. And then they have lingonberry lemonade.

And it’s quite yummy. Speaking on my experience, because it was my first time having them, the service was very nice. I asked for your order, and they said, oh, Elisa, and then turned around and opened the hot, hot.

And our service was ready. It was ready to go. And they were very lovely.

I went through the drive-thru as well. I’ve never gone through the drive-thru. I noticed that they- Because I always go inside.

Yeah, because I’ve seen the sign for them before, but I had never gone. So I went through the drive-thru, and I was like, oh, how convenient. It’s so nice, especially because sometimes you want something quick, but not something junky.

It was a lot of food, too. It was a good portion. Yeah.

So thank you so much, Manic Meatballs. If you’re driving along I-5, and you are maybe on your way to Tacoma from Olympia or driving from Seattle to Portland, it’s a great place to stop for your meal. Thank you, Manic Meatballs.

Thank you, Manic Meatballs. We love you. All right, so we’re going to talk about the movie Obsession.

I’ll probably reference other scary movies or just other movies in general. So if you haven’t seen Obsession, you might want to watch it before you listen to this episode. But also, if you do not like scary movies or violence, you might not really want to watch it, but you would still probably like listening to this episode.

Yeah, there were some intense scenes in there, man. Yeah. The violence doesn’t really show up, like, the really, the- Till, like, near the end, honestly.

Really close to the end. Yeah. Like, I was, it kind of comes out of nowhere, because there’s nothing, like, really crazy, gory, or violent until suddenly it’s just, like, whoa.

It’s more unsettling, I would say. Like, the violence comes out near the end, and I think we’re going to talk more about, like, why that happens, but, like, yeah. So this movie starts out with, it opens with a young man.

They’re, like, in their early 20s. Yeah. He’s sitting at a table, and he’s telling a woman how he feels.

He’s telling a woman that he has feelings for her, and then the reveal is that he’s practicing, and it’s a waitress at a restaurant. And- Oh, my gosh. The secondhand embarrassment.

Yeah, I know. You’re so, so bad. That’s so cringey.

And then his friend is, like, no, have you been flirted with her? You’ve got to flirt with her. And he’s, like, giving his, like, bro-y advice. So then you see him interacting with this friend group.

So the friend group is two guys and two girls. You basically see that Bear, the lead character, his name is Baron, and he goes, by the name Bear, which, what is the significance you think of Bear when you think of? I feel like it’s very on the nose when they say Bear. Like, it’s the man versus bear debate that people have.

Yeah, like, if you were a woman, who would you rather be alone with in the woods, a man or a bear? And also, talking about his friend in that beginning scene, his friend was not a good friend the entire movie. And I stand by that. Because, like, I don’t know, I want to dive into everything immediately.

I know, it’s hard to, well, do we take it chronologically or what? Like, do we just, like, blah? It’s so hard. I don’t know, I think take it chronologically, I guess. OK.

We’ll keep going with it. But let’s start off by saying he was not a good friend, because they’re all in this friend group, and it seems like he’s giving him this very shallow advice. And he’s also the secondhand embarrassment of having the waitress, like, be tormented with that.

Dear God, she does not get paid enough for that. And he’s kind of rude to her when he’s like, OK, just leave. He’s like, OK, we’re done with you.

I don’t know what he says, but he’s like, he’s kind of rude to her. It’s just weird, bad dynamic, bad taste in your mouth. The whole idea that he’s not the best of guys.

It’s pretty. Ian, is that character’s name? Yes, Ian and Bear. Ian, not cool.

Well. And we’ll be talking about Bear this whole time, so. And then the two women are Nikki and Sarah, and they all work at a music store together.

So Bear has had this thing for Nikki for a long time, and it sounds like they all went to high school together, too. So they’ve known each other a long time. They’ve all been friends, it seems like.

And it’s kind of revealed in the beginning, pretty early on, that Sarah has a crush on Bear. Yeah, the signs are there. In the beginning, when he gets home, at the end of the day, he finds his cat has died.

He had left a bottle of pills out somehow open, and the cat got into it. And so in this introduction, he’s like, you see him go to this house, and we find out that he inherited his grandma’s house. It still completely looks like his grandma’s house.

He hasn’t done a thing. And all of that medication, when you see it, and he puts it back into the cupboard, it has the name Barbara on it. It’s his grandmother’s medication.

Yeah. So you’ve got to wonder how long that’s been out. And what a lazy dude.

And he’s kind of unkempt. He’s a nice looking guy, but he’s purposely portrayed as being a little gross. Yeah, a bit slobbish.

You get that vibe when you see the house. It could be depression. It could be one of all these things.

But nonetheless, his animal suffers the consequences of that. Yeah, he didn’t take care of his animal. He doesn’t really take care of himself.

And he doesn’t take care of that house. That’s kind of like my thought is all of that shows us that he’s a careless person. Yeah, absolutely.

And I immediately got that vibe, just looking at his environment. You know a lot from somebody’s environment. Yeah.

And so he talks to Nikki on the phone, and she wants him to go to trivia. And while they’re on the phone, she says, oh, no. I dropped my necklace down the sink, my diamond necklace.

And so he’s like thinking, OK, I’m going to go get her. Not diamond necklace. It’s like a crystal.

Yeah, her crystal necklace, yeah. And so he goes to the witchy store to look at crystals to get her one. And he finds this, which by the way, I absolutely love the store clerk.

She’s like one of my favorite characters. She’s so good. There’s a different store clerk.

He’s great too. I love the store clerks. They’re like the best.

They’re so good. I love good side characters. Yeah, I love the store clerks.

So anyway, he ends up not getting any of the crystals, but then he sees this gimmicky little old timey box that’s called the One Wish Willow. And so he gets the One Wish Willow, and he’s going to give it to her as a gift or something. And they go to trivia.

He’s supposed to be telling Nikki how he feels, but he chickens out. I noticed something after they leave the bar, and they’re outside, and Nikki wants to go home, and the others want to go to another bar. And so Bear’s like, I’ll drive you home.

Bear takes that opportunity fast too. Yeah, and she’s like, OK. And then there’s this part.

Now, I missed this the first and the second time I watched it. So the first time I watched it, fine. Second time I watched it, I watched it in like 15 minute increments, because that was like really busy.

And I wanted to watch it again, but I didn’t really have the time. But then this weekend, I watched it, watched it again. And so when they are all standing around outside after the bar, Nikki asks Sarah, or asks them, do you have any cash? And Sarah’s like, well, I have a 20.

And Nikki’s like, give it to me. And she goes and gives it to a homeless person. And Bear is looking at her, and looking at her with the lovey-dovey eyes.

And in that moment, he’s just doing the thing of building up who she is as a person. He’s putting her on the pedestal right there. And in my dating experience, because my day job is something that is considered maybe honorable or commendable, like it’s considered like, oh, you must be a really good person if you do that for work.

And I’m kind of like adjacent to that. But it’s not like I work at a soup kitchen or something. You know what I mean? Yeah.

But when I would go on dates, men would be like, wow, that’s really very good of you. You must be such a good person to do that kind of work. And I’m like, I literally stay in an office.

I don’t interact with vulnerable people. I’m not going out and saving people. It’s just an industry.

It’s funny, because it’s the same thing with nursing. A lot of these people do go in with like, but a lot of nurses are not nice people. Yeah.

You go in with a lot of hope and like. Well, I mean, a lot of people can, I don’t know. I just feel like people, they see what you do.

Yeah. And then they create this idea around you. Yeah, they just build up this idea of you without actually knowing.

Put you on a pedestal. And I got to a point where I didn’t like telling men what my job was, at least specifically like the industry or the area of work, rather than saying I do communication work. Yeah.

Because if they found out exactly the specifics, they start to put me on a pedestal. Yeah. People perceive you differently based on what you do.

And so when I saw, you see Bear looking at her while she’s, and she’s chatting with the homeless person. And he’s just like, you can see him putting her on that pedestal in the way that he’s looking at her. And he drives her home.

And he’s like trying to tell her, but he chickens out. And then he makes fun of her a little bit, which is one of the things that his friend told him to do. Yeah, at the very beginning, his friend tells him to call her, what is it, Freaky Nikki? Yeah, Freaky Nikki, which was something.

And he’s like, but she hates that because they called her that in high school. Yeah. But it totally fails immediately.

Yeah, so she’s like, you know I hate that. And then that’s when she goes, she’s like, hey, do you like me? She’s like, if you like me, you have to tell me. And then he’s like, I like you as a good friend.

He can’t do it. Which, oh, that’s so aggravating to me because he has this opening, and it just shows his cowardice, just unwillingness to really open up in that moment when you have every opportunity to. And he had been, he had been wanting to, like, ugh.

And that was his whole plan going out. And so she’s like, OK, good. And then she leaves, and he gets the one-wish willow out.

And he opens it, and he makes his wish that, I wish Nikki, he says specifically, I wish Nikki Freeman loved me more than anyone else in the fucking world. And this is, this wish in and of itself is so dangerous. It’s so bad.

And like, a lot of people are like, how would he ever think it was actually real? Yeah, but like, dude, I think at a certain point, if you’re making a wish out of malice, out of just negative emotions, like, just the feelings he had during the moment where he made the wish and snapped the one-wish willow, there’s some bad, dark energy that he brought out. Well, yeah. And so Nikki ends up becoming, like, she’s not Nikki anymore.

So what happens is she becomes this, like, well, almost like a shell of herself. Yeah, and she starts, just anything to please him. And she’s very agreeable.

This scene where she, like, changes, I think, is really, really intimidating, because she comes up to the car and she starts saying, I’m so sorry about your cat. No, she’s like, you should come inside. And she goes, my cat did just die.

Yeah. And he’s like, wait, what? Yeah, it’s super. And she’s like, I mean your cat.

Yeah, she can’t get her story right, and it’s very. And she’s suddenly like a flirty girl when she wasn’t before. It’s very jarring.

And then he’s like, no, I don’t think so. No, I don’t think so. And she’s like, come on, get out, get out.

And then eventually she’s like, OK. And then she gets in the car. And he’s like, what are you doing? What are you doing? But he’s, like, happy.

Yeah. He’s, like, smiling, but he’s like, Nikki, what the fuck? What are you doing? He’s, like, surprised, but, like, happy surprised. Yeah.

And then she, like, starts crying. And she’s like, my dad is dying, and I just can’t be alone. And so he says, OK.

And so she goes home with him. It’s the way that she’s saying those things. You can tell, like, she’s being entirely dishonest.

And I think that’s the scary, like, she’s, like, once she’s under that spell, she’s just trying to find any way to be with him at that point. Yeah. So just the flopping.

And she stops. During this first night, she, like, suddenly snaps back into Nikki every once in a while. And she’ll be like, whoa, what the fuck? This is weird.

I’m acting so weird right now. And then she will be, like, then she’ll go back into being this different version, this other person. And he’s, like, excited about it and happy about it.

And I think he sleeps on the floor. They don’t sleep together. Yeah, the first night, he sleeps on the floor.

And he’s, I’m, because I watched this, like, a while before. And you recap this. I’m pretty sure they have, like, a nice honeymoon section where, like, montage or whatever.

Yeah, there’s a montage of them getting together. But I really think it’s just, like, a few days. Oh, yeah? It makes it seem like it’s a little longer.

But I really think it’s a few days. It feels like it’s, like, months almost. But it’s not.

It’s so, the timeline feels so, but honestly, that makes sense. Yeah, I don’t think it can be that long, even though, yeah, I think it’s a little misleading. Because it has to be a bit shorter.

And the two other friends are just, like, what the hell is going on? Yeah. If you want to see some brilliant acting, the young woman who plays Nikki in D Never Ready is incredible. She’s going to go places.

She’s already cast as Rogue in the next X-Men. I’m so excited. Yeah, like, no, she is incredible.

And it’s worth watching her performance alone. Yeah, she’s very unsettling. And then in her moments where she’s real Nikki, it feels so natural.

And oh, I love it. I love. So when Bear goes and tells his friends, like, oh, she’s acting, they’re all like, she’s acting weird.

He’s like, yeah, she’s going through something. They’re all saying, like, oh, she’s going through something. Her dad is dying.

And Ian’s like, her dad, her dad in another state that she doesn’t even care about and doesn’t like and doesn’t talk about. And it’s like, Sarah knows that. Ian knows that.

Bear doesn’t even know that about her. Bear wasn’t on that same level as the other two. He didn’t really know her.

He didn’t know she hated her dad. Yeah, so he just believes this lie. But even when Ian’s like, oh, the dad that she doesn’t talk to, like, he’s like, yeah, what would you know? Like, basically, like, because he’s so happy that Nikki is on his arm and wants to be with him.

So. And she just, at night, is creepy as fuck, like, standing in the corner of the room. She’s so, it’s so creepy.

And she doesn’t want him to leave her side. And they go out on a date. And he confronts her about the dad.

He’s like, did you, does your dad really have cancer? And this is like one of the first times you see her flip out. And she’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I thought we were having a nice date.

Don’t do this. Yeah, and she like, stands up and she’s doing this in front of everybody. I think she says, why does it matter? Yeah, and then he says, we are having a nice date.

And then she’s like, then why does it matter? And he’s like, it doesn’t. And then they sit down and then they go on. Yeah, they’re having this good date.

And then he gets a phone call from Ian. And he hears about this dad stuff. And Nikki’s like, around the corner.

Yeah, she’s lurking, like, trying to listen to their call. Like, where is he? What’s he doing? Yeah, like, yeah, just kind of see what he’s up to. But it’s very jarring to see how she’s like, why does it matter? Yeah, and the way she wigs out as soon as she gets, which it’s all, this isn’t Nikki.

Yeah. And I think Bear’s reactions are so. Well, before he asks her about the dad, like, does your dad really have cancer? He says, do you love me more than anything? Do you love me more than anyone else in the world? And she’s like, yes, I love you more than anything.

And he’s like, then you won’t lie to me? No. And he’s like, does your dad really have cancer? And that’s when she says, no, no. And that’s what flips out.

So it’s like, right away, he’s like, kind of, and he asks the exact language that he used in his wish. Do you love me more than anyone else in the world? Yeah. But then after this scene, it cuts, like, this jarring cut to them having sex.

Him basically having sex with her. And you see her face empty. Super jarring.

No expression. It looks like a rape. Yeah, it’s definitely a callback to every time that they have sex, it is essay.

It is, absolutely. Nikki is in that body. And any time she’s sleeping, those scenes where she’s not up and being creepy, like, standing in a corner, she is her real self crying in her sleep, begging for him to kill her.

It’s so sad. And then the sound, she’s completely dissociated during the scene. The sex scene? Yeah, the sex scene.

But she’s still making the sounds and everything. So her face is just, like, making no expression. And she’s just going, yeah, ah, ah.

It’s so disturbing. Yeah, it’s really hard to see. And you see it, and you’re like, it’s obviously, like, and that’s a moment where you’re like, oh, she’s not really there.

And yeah. And then the next day, she doesn’t want him to leave and go to work. And she’s going to stay at his place.

And when he’s like, oh, you were acting weird last night or whatever, and she does this thing where she’s like, sorry, you know, I’m sorry. I, like, was going to make some excuse. And then she goes, how’s this? And she does this, like, weird smile for him.

Yeah, just, like, really Joker-esque. Like, just, yeah, intense, like, eye-squinting, hard smile. And he’s, like, a little less or something like that.

But so she, while he’s gone at work, she just stands in one spot the whole day waiting for him. Yeah. Smiling.

It really does feel like she’s, like, a pet at this very moment. Like, she doesn’t have, she’s just so far gone that she’s standing in place. Like, she defecates on herself, like, when he comes home.

Yeah, she pees. She pees. That scene ends with her peeing herself right there.

And then when he comes back, she’s got, like, vomit all over her. Yeah, and she snaps right back to it and goes, oh, oh, I can clean myself up. I’ll go take a shower.

She says, like, I ate a bug. I love that line for some reason. But OK, this is what I thought about.

You know, this is what I thought about this weekend because I’m thinking about this so hard. You know how some people, when they’re being abused, try to make themselves as unappealing as possible and, like, will soil themselves to try to stop the abuse? I could see that. I was thinking about maybe Nikki was doing that on purpose.

Like, Nikki inside was doing whatever she could to show her presence. Like, maybe Nikki was making that happen. Like, it was on purpose.

I feel like it’s a double-edged sword, too, because if there’s the conflicting feelings of the real Nikki on the inside trying to get out of that situation. Like fighting. But then this entity that’s in her being like, oh, but I just need him to love me and getting more and more violent.

Like. Well, that makes sense because she gets more and more violent. Yeah.

And then they go to the party. But you know what I mean? Like, it’s it’s such a weird dynamic because she says the craziest stuff and then goes right back to being like, oh, I didn’t mean that. I was just kidding.

Yeah, it’s a joke, you guys. Okay, I’m not joking. Looking at this movie about a man coming up with his idea of what he wants a woman to be has his has his fantasy, right? His fantasy and it gets to his fantasy is basically she is all about him.

His fantasy is that not not that she’s the best person she can be. It has nothing to do with her fantasy is all about him. And I was just thinking about like what you said about her becoming like a pet and or like an like a trophy arm candy.

And then think and I was thinking about other movies. And that made me think of Poor Things. That’s why I asked you if you watched it and how like I enjoyed Poor Things a lot.

I did too. And I enjoy that weird writer-director. It was bizarre, but I did very much like it.

And I thought it was an out there story. Yeah, but I was also thinking like what like it’s a man’s fantasy, basically, to have a grown woman have a baby’s brain put inside of her, basically, so that he can mold her however he wants her to be. And like she’s basically his little doll.

And and then so I feel like and then think about like way back to the 80s movie, like Weird Science and and then I was also thinking, OK, I I also thought of, well, Companion. Companion, you get to like I love Companion. You get he got to basically have his robot companion and design her however he wanted her to be.

And then also Ruby Sparks. I haven’t seen that one. So Ruby Sparks is where a man starts writing his story about a woman named Ruby Sparks and she comes true.

All of a sudden, she’s living in his home and she’s like his ideal woman. And he like is writing everything for her. First, he writes that he wants her to be like obsessed with him or can’t do it, can’t is miserable when she’s without him.

And then he realized. But the thing about Ruby Sparks that’s not like these other movies is the moral is she’s her own person and he had to let her go. And that he you know, having control over her was was wrong.

Consent is what’s needed. Like so that I would say that is. And I they worked on that movie together.

Paul Dano and Zoe Kazan. They’re married and they’ve worked on that together. And I love that movie.

And I think that there’s so often the male fantasy of of them getting to build the perfect woman. Yeah, it’s it’s a major archetype. If you look at the film industry, you’ll see several that have that.

Like like I mentioned, the fifth element is one I can think of specifically where it’s. I call the trope born sexy yesterday. I love that.

Yeah, because like actually, that is what happens. They are transplanted into this story. Beautiful as always, but they don’t know anything.

And that’s a man’s fantasy. A beautiful, stupid, damsel in distress who is gorgeous beyond belief. That’s what they want.

Yeah, they don’t want us to have brains. They don’t want us to have autonomy. They want to move us around like they’re little dolls.

And I’m like and I’m saying this like they and men in in a very generalization. But I work in a warehouse to like also little me lower. Hello, I work in a warehouse where it’s primarily men.

And I see all the time these misogynist like differences and like how I’m treated differently from other people. And it’s just like it’s not something you want to deal with, but it’s something you like got to kind of just shoulder and copy down. But in relationships specifically, like men will build you up as this manic pixie dream and not actually care to know you, but care that the way that you make them feel is all that is important.

It’s very selfish thought processes. Yeah. And in those a lot of the stories, it’s like the woman exists for the man to have meet their realization or for them.

They don’t have any life goals. They don’t they they have nothing other than what this man is providing for them. Yeah.

And and then they also oftentimes like in the case of the character Bear, that’s like he doesn’t have anything else going for him. If you think about it, like Nikki Nikki talks about wanting to be a writer before she turns into not Nikki. Other Nikki.

Yeah. She talks about wanting to be a writer and Sarah is trying to get into become a tattoo artist and trying to get into this art school. And so they have dreams.

These are actual, you know, they’re intelligent and like very deep and they have personalities. And then when Nikki turns into other Nikki, all of that’s gone. Yeah.

She really only has Bear and that’s her one obsession. It’s very male centered. And I was just thinking about this, but when they’re at the bar at the beginning, their other female friend who has a crush on Bear, she ends up asking or like hanging out with him and he brings up how his cat passed away.

The difference in empathetic reactions between like Nikki and Sarah Sarah when talking about this animal, like it’s very clear that Sarah has a thing for Bear and she hugs him. Yeah. The way she hugs him, all this.

And then whenever Nikki’s like goes other Nikki and she says, oh, my cat. I mean, your cat died. Like it’s it’s very jarring.

Like it’s like piecing this together, you know. And then, oh, Bear calls the number on the One Wish Willow and the One Wish Willow person is like, do you want to cancel your wish? And he says, no, can I alter it? So he doesn’t even try to like that is so that’s like diabolical. He does like everything’s going wrong.

And at this point, he’s like knows she’s hurting herself. He knows this is bad and he doesn’t even want to cancel it. It’s so unhealthy.

He sees it. It’s coercive control. Yeah.

It’s like he. Yeah. The fact that he just wants to alter his wish doesn’t want to change it.

And I think that phone call scene, by the way, very creepy. When he’s he’s saying, you want to hear the real Nikki? He says, do you want to talk to her? Yeah. Do you want to talk to her? So creepy.

And he’s like, who? And he’s like, Nikki. He doesn’t even tell her he like the guy. He doesn’t explain.

Bear doesn’t say this is anything about the wish. So the guy on the other side knows who he is and knows what the wish is. And you hear just like screaming on the other side.

Yeah. And this might be later. So I’m sorry if I skip around.

That might be on me. There are pictures that they take of each other. And then there’s a writing on some of these Polaroids saying not me in the story.

If you look, there’s there’s Polaroids they have of each other, but written on top of Nikki’s character is not me. Oh, I never noticed. Yeah.

Well, they go to the this party and they’re playing like a like a truth or dare Jenga game. Like you draw a block and it has like a truth or dare thing, a dare. And oh, if you don’t want to do the dare, you have to take a drink.

That’s what it is. It’s a drinking game. And the dare that Nikki gets is to like read something that you’ve written personally or something.

And she reads this weird Hansel and Gretel fan fiction twisted like about. So it’s like basically Hansel and Gretel talking to each other. And then it sounds like Gretel is like you’re my like I’m your sister.

And but like they’re sleeping together. It’s really creepy. I can’t really explain it.

And she does it in like creepy British accent. She reads it. So I was also thinking, like, what if that’s Nikki trying to express the relationship that’s going on with Bear? Because she’s seen him as a brother.

Yeah. And then absolutely. Yeah, I could definitely see that.

So and then I love one of the the dares is to like switch seats with somebody. And so Bear has to move and he has to he’s sitting next to Sarah. And then when it’s Bear’s turn, he pulls thing that says kiss the person to your left.

Sarah’s to his left. And Nikki just stands up and she has this giant frown on her face. It is so good.

It’s so creepy. It’s a very solid frown. And then she she just goes and just like stands frowning, looking at them frowning.

And then she pushes Sarah’s chair out of the way and then leans over to kiss Bear on the left and on her left. And then she says like a creepy thing like nobody will ever know how much I love my bear. And all of you will die never knowing the strength of connection that me and my bear have.

And she like says it and everyone’s like silent looking at her. And she’s like and Bear’s just looking uncomfortable. She’s like, I’m just kidding, you guys.

It’s just a joke. Yeah, it’s so creepy. Yeah.

But then at one point she starts she like bashes her head in with a bottle and everyone’s like, what the heck? Everyone’s freaking out. And Bear’s just sitting in the chair looking. Yeah, looking like literally defeated.

He’s like dissociated. Yeah. They’re trying to be like Bear do something.

And they’re like, you need to take her to the hospital. And oh my gosh. It’s so rough.

Yeah, it’s insane. But it’s like he doesn’t doesn’t see that it’s not Nikki. But he knows everyone’s like Nikki’s going through something.

What’s wrong with Nikki? Oh, and that’s when Ian is like, Nikki, are you OK at the party? And she’s like, yeah. Yeah, because they like don’t talk basically at all. Like she’s like isolates because of this wish.

Yeah. And so they haven’t been able to talk to her. And they’re like, something’s going on with her.

She’s acting so weird. And all of a sudden, like she talked to Sarah about how Bear was more like a brother. And all of a sudden, she’s like super into him and dating him.

And so everyone’s confused. And they and some people think that he’s taking advantage of her because she’s going through something weird. But then some people think like Sarah thinks that Nikki is like doing some weird revenge.

And then it’s it’s revealed eventually that Nikki and Ian had been on and off hooking up. For like two years. Yeah.

Like it had been a minute. So it was almost like it was I can see like no one ever. Everybody knew that it wasn’t going to happen except for Bear.

Yeah. And I feel like Ian should have said it’s not going to happen. That’s why I say that Ian was a bad friend from the beginning.

So after that, was it the same night as the party? I don’t know. But that’s when Sarah is texting Bear to come and meet her. She wants to talk to him.

And he’s like, I can’t. And she’s like, you better come now or I’m going to come over there. And so he’s like sneaking out and Nikki’s asleep next to him.

And that’s when she starts saying, kill me in her sleep. And he’s like, what? And she’s like, she’s sleeping. That’s it.

And she’s like, be quiet and wake her. And she’s like, kill me, please. Bear, kill me, please.

And he’s like, is it that bad being with me? Yeah. That being her first response to that, by the way, is insane. She says, I’ve never been with you, Bear.

Yeah. And he leaves and goes to Sarah. Sarah tells him about Ian and Nikki hooking up.

And Sarah tells him anyway. And then they are kind of flirting and realizing, oh, they’re a good match. And she’s saying, she’s not right for you.

You need a girl that’s more chill. And he’s like, like you? And she’s like, well, I was to your left. And they’re about to kiss.

And then that’s when the jarring moment comes where, anyway, I don’t know if we need to go into the spoilers. Should we go into all the spoilers? Anyway. I mean, yeah.

I mean, we’ve already talked about it. Yeah, Nikki kills her. Smashes the window and uses a brick on the driver, on the steering wheel, just literally bashing Sarah’s face in.

It’s very, very graphic. It’s very fast. It happens all very fast.

And oh, and Nikki has her hair covering her face. It’s so creepy. And she goes over to Bear.

And she’s like, I’m so sorry, baby. Now you got to help me take care of the body. And he goes back to the store to get another one wish willow.

There’s only two left. Or he gets two. And then he runs to Ian’s house.

And he’s like, so he goes to his friend. And he’s trying to tell Ian what happened. And he wants Ian to make a wish that Bear never made his wish.

Because the guy at the store says the only way it ends is if you die. If you die. Or if someone else makes a wish that cancels out your wish.

Yeah. But you only get one wish willow. So he can’t make another wish.

Like physically impossible to break the stick again. But yeah, he tries to make another wish. And you can’t do it.

But that is right after Sarah was murdered in front of him. Why did he? What was he wishing? That Nikki loved me like a friend. Not that Sarah wasn’t just murdered.

Dude, Bear is such a terrible, terrible person. And he’s got, I think he’s very childish. He doesn’t think of the ramifications of all this truly.

He’s careless. He’s careless. Comes back to the carelessness.

And Ian doesn’t believe him. So he takes the wish and wishes for a billion dollars. And then a billion dollars just falls from the sky.

And Bear’s just like, what the fuck? And he goes back. And Nikki is dressed up like Sarah. Trying to be what he likes.

And he’s realizing I just have to kill myself. So he tries to kill himself. He takes a bunch of pills.

And then while he just had taken all the pills, he hears the one wish willow little, it plays a little song. And he hears the snap. And all of a sudden, you see his face change.

And they see each other. And they’re like smiling at each other. And you realize she wished that Bear loved her more than anything in the world.

I want to say this, too. When he tries to kill himself, he tries to use a gun first. He can’t use a gun.

He refuses to use a gun. So he decides to take the pills. So he starts swallowing the pills, right? And then he starts trying to throw up.

He starts trying to throw them up. He cannot take the responsibility for his actions. I mean, that’s still scary.

He’s definitely scared of death. But at this point, like so much has happened. I think at this point in the story, he still can’t bring himself to make a decision, which is so terrible to be like, oh, yeah, couldn’t kill yourself.

But the wishing willow being used on him. And so they see each other. And they’re like smiling at each other.

And they both like she’s like covered in blood. And he’s just he’s covered in blood. And they’re just smiling at each other, like little like googly eyed.

And then they start like hugging and kissing. And then he starts to die because he just took a bunch of pills. And everyone.

Oh, and she also missed this. But she killed Ian when he came over to see what was going on. So everybody’s dead in that house, except.

And as soon as Bear dies, other Nikki snaps into Nikki. And so it’s so that her. OK, her.

She’s sobbing when she’s like, no, my baby’s dying. No, baby. And she’s like sad and crying.

And then as soon as it’s he’s dead and the wish ends and she’s back to being Nikki, she just like makes these crazy guttural whales and whales that are like like gut wrenching. It’s just incredible. It’s like this.

OK, it’s like the take on the final girl thing, right? Like that’s how a horror movie you’re like final girl. You’re the one the one who survives. But she is left with all of this destruction.

Carnage. And it’s all at her physical hands. It’s at her expense, too, because she she did none of this by her own will or any of it.

But she is the last one standing. So what’s the message around relationships? Men suck. Well, you know, like it’s really dangerous to build up an idea.

About who somebody is. So one of the things on Ask Elisa that I say a lot for dating advice is like we’ve got to watch ourselves and stop ourselves from filling in the blanks. And like I’ve done that many times in life, too.

Filling in the blanks like we just do it. And it’s part of like natural. It’s a natural tendency to when you like somebody to fill in the blanks.

You want to because you start writing the story. When you first meet somebody or when you don’t know a lot about somebody, there’s a lot of space for you to fill in those blanks and to fantasize and to build this person up in your head. And nowadays, with the way that we can text with each other so much, you’re not really getting you’re getting words on a screen.

You’re not getting the influence who they are. And so it just gives you more fuel to build up that fantasy. Mm hmm.

And so there’s there’s that. But then also I was thinking about how when he when he goes and sees Sarah in the car and realizes that maybe Sarah is a better match for him. That’s so typical of our, you know, somebody getting what they want.

Like, oh, I am in love with this person. And then, oh, she’s actually literally a real person and has thoughts, has, you know, like has a life, has trauma, has all these things she’s carrying. And then so like, OK, thank you next.

I got what I wanted, but actually it’s not what I wanted because they’re not this perfect ideal woman that I just designed in my mind that they were. I think at the signs of Nikki not being who she was originally, like Bear truly did not know Nikki because Nikki was acting like very unusual, not like herself at all at these points. And he wanted it so bad.

Yeah, he didn’t care. He didn’t care. He knew that this wish was affecting her for a long time and to a detriment to herself.

And he still wanted. Like physically hurting her. Yeah, like, yeah, physical harm.

Like she was going on herself. She it was strictly just I’m here for him. And he was OK with that.

And I think that’s very telling of like people just want that arm candy, that piece. And you don’t really care to hear people’s life stories out when you build up this idea. And you hear people saying like they never really knew me or they never really wanted to know me.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and this is like, of course, really extreme. But that’s what kind of what art is sometimes.

It’s like an extreme story to basically get to a point to make a point. To make the juxtaposition to show you. Kind of had a meltdown.

Like I cried. I cried over just like being a woman. And I just like I felt I felt such strong emotions.

I didn’t know how to process the movie. I just like cried. And I was just like people see Bear as the nice guy.

And like it’s just like. And I think he’s archetyped as the nice guy. Like so unassuming.

So like not non-threatening. And and that the world as a woman. It doesn’t matter whether they’re the nice guy, whether they’re non-threatening.

I think it’s still dangerous to be so careless. Yeah. And that like, yeah.

And so I just had like this. I suddenly felt like a lot of the weight of the world of being a woman reaction. Like watching the Barbie movie.

Like but in a different. It’s like the opposite of the. On the Venn diagram, there’s the Barbie movie on one side and then obsession on the other.

And there’s this overlap. Yeah, there’s the overlap of just like high emotion. Womanhood.

Yeah. Yes. Like because every woman has somehow experienced some level of this in their life.

Objectification. Yes. Being put on a pedestal, not being seen for who they are.

Not being heard or listened to. Or or, you know, straight up being abused. Cry for help.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And and people also also the trope of like, dude, she was crazy.

It’s like, oh, she’s being crazy. What? You’re being crazy. It’s like also that too.

Like the men in this keep saying she’s acting crazy. She’s being crazy. Nikki’s crazy too.

And that’s like another thing. You’re looking at me like, girl. I don’t know.

Yeah. Yeah. So the following week in therapy, I brought up the movie to my therapist and she said, you are the seventh one of my patients to bring up this movie in a session.

That is a big freaking number. This movie is like a social reckoning. I feel like it is.

It’s a very good social commentary on relationships, especially like it’s an extreme, obviously. But like there are key notes and examples that could go to many different types of abuse that women suffer through every day. A lot that people think are normalized and are minimized because they see it as like an everyday thing.

Nice people doing it, they think, you know? It’s like just because there’s no harm intended and it’s the way things are, it doesn’t mean that there’s not still harm done by it. Yeah, absolutely. So I think that’s a good note to wrap up on.

I want to thank Manic Meatballs one more time for sponsoring woman-owned business, woman-run business. Women in STEM. Yeah.

And so thanks again, Manic Meatballs, Lakewood, Washington, wonderful restaurant, quick service meatballs, affordable, delicious, vegan options, meaty options, vegetables, all the things. Bacon-wrapped meatball options. Yeah, lingonberry lemonade.

Oh. So good. So Hailey, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me. We talked so much. Good job on your first podcast episode ever.

I think I did it. I did it. I’m so proud of myself.

I’m proud of you too. Have me come back so I can talk later. I’m sorry, but there was something that I really needed to have on this.

Oh yes. Your Lois Griffin impression. Oh my gosh.

Okay, I’ll do the phrase. Are we ready? I’m so ready for this. Peter.

Peter, the horse is here. Thank you. Yell it, Peter.

Peter! That’s so good. Oh, and then your Jennifer Coolidge, please. Oh my God, don’t drink the water.

It makes me want a hot dog real bad. And I’m taking the dog, dumbass. So good.

Thank you. I needed to share that. What are my? We have practice impressions in front of each other.

Mine are mostly singing impressions. I’m not good at the talking ones. It’s funny because I feel like I’m better at the talking ones.

Yeah. I can do some singing ones. They’re not great though.

What are my better ones? Oh, my Britney Spears. Oh yeah, the Britney was pretty good. Okay.

That’s pretty good. I just love doing sometimes, which is one of the old school. It was like her second single.

It was her single like after baby one more time. Okay, ready everybody? I’m ready. You tell me you’re in love with me.

That you can’t take your pretty eyes away from me. It’s not that I don’t want to stay. But every time you come too close, I move away.

I want to believe in everything that you say. Because it sounds so good. It’s the rasp.

It’s the rasp in there. I can hear her. It’s like I put a bubble in my throat to do it.

Oh, baby, baby. How was I supposed to know? That something was in my head, yeah. I try to do oops.

I think I did it again. I played with your. Anyway, if you’ve stayed to the end of the episode and got to hear this.

This is like a little bit for real. That’s the bonus. Okay.

Of hanging out with theater kids. Yeah, you get impressions. We carpool an hour to and from our rehearsals.

So we got lots of time to be theater kids together. So it is glorious. We have fun together.

Yeah, we do. Thanks again. Thank you for having me.

Love you.

Thanks for listening to Ask Elisa. I’m your host, Elisa Sparkman. This episode was produced and edited by me. Music by Jacob Patterson.