Ask Elisa Podcast

PODCAST EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

It’s Ask Elisa, a podcast about dating and relationships in your late 30s, 40s, and older. I’m Elisa, I found myself unexpectedly single right before my 40th birthday, and now, with two years of dating under my belt, let’s talk about it. Today, my guest is Chris.

Hi, Chris. Hi, Elisa. Would you please introduce yourself to our listeners? Yes, I am Chris Bean.

I am 41. My pronouns are she, her. And I’m originally from Los Angeles, and I moved up to this area about 14 years ago, and came by way of my ex-husband.

So, excited about that. Yeah. Well, thanks for joining us.

Well, the first thing we do on this podcast, after introductions, is share a little something about ourselves that has nothing to do with a romantic relationship, because we are so much more than our love lives. And so, what’s something about you that is not attached to anything romantic, or any romantic partner? Just Chris. Just Chris.

Um, well, yeah, I guess that that’s kind of tough. But the first thing that really comes to mind, honestly, is my sister. So, my sister, Desiree, she was born with a heart condition.

We thought she wasn’t gonna make it until five, and we had her until 21. Oh, wow. So, she did pass over 10 years ago now, but we got her for a few more years, you know, more than we thought we were gonna be able to have her for.

So, I like to talk about my sister, like she’s still here, and talk about memories. But yeah, she was my first best friend. Was she older or younger? Younger.

How much older? Five years. Five years younger, okay. So, yeah, you got to be pretty close in age, especially when you’re older.

And like, the time when she was 20, 21, that’s a really fun time, because you’re like the same age, really. Like, you’re not really the same age when you’re like 15 and 10. Right.

We definitely went through an area where she was my annoying little sister, and I didn’t want anything to do with her, you know? So, really close when we were young, and then, you know, annoying each other, and when we were older, and then, yeah, kind of coming into like her later teens. Like, I helped to get ready for prom, and that was kind of significant to you, because she had already had two heart transplants. And so, her heart was giving her complications, and at that time, she had told us that if it had to happen again, basically, she didn’t want to do it again.

And so, it was really special to like be there for her, help her get ready for prom, like do her makeup, and get dressed with her, and all that stuff. Like, it was really great. Yeah, that’s sweet.

Thanks for sharing that. I’m really sorry for your family’s loss, but also happy that you got to have her for much longer than expected. Yeah.

It’s one of those bittersweet stories. Yes, definitely. Do you have any sisters? Kind of, yes.

I don’t have any blood sisters, but I have somebody really close that is absolutely like a sister. We grew up together, so we talk every week, every couple of days, really. So, yeah, we’re really close.

And she has kids that call me Tia, and I call them my niece and nephew, so yeah. I love that. She lives on the East Coast.

And I have my best friends that I’m really close with. We have been best friends since middle school, so we’re really close. And one of them passed away last year, and so, yeah, grief has been new to me in the past year.

Yeah, I’ve got sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. Yeah, we loved that movie when it came out. We were like, yes.

So I guess I’ll just make mine also about my sisterhood of the Traveling Pants besties. The thing that we shared the most, usually, was like books, like we would pass around books and all read the same book. Or we were all different sizes, so we didn’t really share a lot of clothes.

But we went to, two of us went to the same high school, and then I went to high school without any of them there, and the one that passed away went to a different high school as well. So we didn’t all go to the same schools. We lived in different areas.

But then, after college, we kind of all came back to the same area, except one of us lives a couple hours away. And we’ve gone on trips together, most memorably, Cambodia. One of us was in the Peace Corps in Cambodia, and we all went to visit her.

It was incredible, yeah. It was really cool. That’s really cool.

Yeah. How awesome. How many international trips? Well, that was the only one all four of us went on besides Canada.

Okay. With one of them, with Amanda, she and I went to Costa Rica. The other two of them went to, from Cambodia, they went to Thailand and then to Europe.

So yeah, we’ve done those kinds of things, and hopefully we have, we’ve always planned on going on more international trips together. And every time we do anything now, it’s a little, like we still say the four of us. I still say the four of us, even though there’s three bodies on Earth, the fourth one’s still with us, so.

Yeah, yeah. She’ll travel with you guys. We do everything.

I mean, we just, we’re in constant communication with each other. And I feel like the three of us have really doubled down since one of us passed away. Like, we’re like a little bit more territorial over each other, and so.

Gotta keep that connection alive. Yeah, and it’s so cool. Like a lot of, one of them has a younger sister who told us that she like really, like learned a lot from us, what friendship is like.

And one of the friends’ dad even said like, you know, your friendship really showed me what friendship should be like, and just really beautiful stuff. Yeah, that’s powerful. That’s really sweet.

A testament to, yeah, the friendship. How awesome. Okay.

So boys. Yeah, let’s talk about relationships, I guess, right? Not boys all the time. Boys all the time for me.

I don’t know about you. Not boys all the time for me. Okay, great.

Actually men and women, because we’re grownups. Yeah, I actually appreciate that correction, because I also want to get better at using that terminology. I know, but sometimes like I want to say like, ooh, I’m doing it for the girls.

Like, it’s okay if we say that, right? But I don’t like when men call us girls. Right, so I don’t know if you’ve heard about this, but there’s terminology within like the in-group, right? So if you’re in the in-group, then it’s more acceptable sometimes to use that language than if you’re not in the in-group. Right, so then like, I don’t know.

Rachel and I were talking about this actually the other day, and I don’t know if we were here when we were talking about it, but sometimes like women will call each other bees and bitches and hoes basically. That’s my bitch or that’s my ho. But it’s a term of endearment because we’re in this in-group, right? Where everybody accepts that that’s okay to use.

But yeah, if you’re a boy or a man calling somebody girls, like that’s not cool. You’re not in that in-group. Yeah, yes.

And so I wanna backtrack that. You and I met through Rachel who’s been on the podcast. She was my first podcast guest.

And we don’t really know each other very well. We’ve only hung out one time. So I actually don’t know anything.

I don’t know much about you at all. So that’s why this is exciting for me. But in the time that we did hang out, I could see that we would get along great.

And we have similar sense of humor, so. Yeah, plus Rachel is awesome, so. Yes, so.

But we met through Rachel. She’s super awesome. We’re getting to know each other.

But so far, so good. Yeah. Yeah, I was here a couple of weekends ago helping you pull some weeds and plant some, what did we plant, basil? What did we plant? Yes, we planted basil.

Which was awesome. And then I got to take home cherries and basil. Yes.

Which are great. So that was really cool. You’ve got this fabulous homestead here.

Have you ever like given a descriptor to the listeners? Like kind of what you got going on here? I think I have shared that I have some gardens and trees, like orchards. And I share the property with my madre. You met my mom too? Si, su madre.

And you’re Latina too? Si. Okay. Soy Mexicana.

Usted es Colombiana. No. Try again.

Ecuador. Yes, Ecuadorianas. I’m like, how do you say that? I can’t say that with an accent.

She can. Ecuadoriana. Ecuadoriana.

Yeah. I’m gonna keep that. I’m gonna have to repeat that a couple of times.

I’ll keep trying. But yes, Ecuador. It gets confusing because we have a lot of really, I think we might’ve talked about my close family friend who is, whose mom is from Colombia.

Okay. So I might’ve talked about, I think we talked about that. It was all one, Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru at one point.

Okay. So. Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know this history, learn me.

That’s really all I, that’s really. That’s for a separate podcast. That’s really all I know.

Borders, you know, they were made. Yeah. Have you been? Yeah.

Okay. Have you been? I’ve been to Lima, Peru, and Bolivia. I’m in Mexico.

Oh, yes. Like to your, I’ve never been to Peru or Bolivia. Yes, I have been to Mexico.

Yeah, different parts of Mexico. Yeah, cool. Not necessarily like where my grandmother’s from and where she came from.

South of, south of El Paso, Texas, which is Jalisco is down that area. So I’ve never been there, but I’ve been to all other parts of Mexico. I think I’ve been to Jalisco.

Yeah? Yeah. The coastal part of Jalisco though. Okay.

Yeah, I’ve only been to one, one area. So, well, I think I flew into Jalisco and then stayed in Nayarit, that’s the name of the state. Okay, yeah.

Okay. So anyway, again, here we are talking about not men. Yeah, I love it.

Yeah, yes. Yeah, we can pivot. Am I snapping too loud? I was gonna say, Chris is doing a lot of the snapping.

I do love snaps, yeah. Yeah. So if you hear that, that’s what that is.

So I don’t really know much about your romantic history. I know, all I know is that you are currently single and that you are divorced. You were married before.

Yes. So, so hit me with the story. All right.

So currently single. I’ve been single for over a year, probably more than a year actually now, but it’s been great. It’s been interesting because of course there was some grief that was there, more of like the loss of having like a partner and a person to kind of like lean on and rely on, kind of share about my day.

So I kind of agree with that loss, but not necessarily the loss of the relationship. And the reason why I believe is because we had a non-traditional relationship. It was an open relationship.

We talked a lot about our open relationship with our friends and our family and on our podcast as well. So this was with your ex-husband? My ex-husband, yes. Okay, how long were you married? So we were married for seven years, but together for 13 years.

Okay, and when did you open your marriage? That was like right before we got married. Oh, so you got married as an open relationship. We did.

But yeah, so, and what I like to, I guess define for people is that you kind of define your own open relationship. So not every open relationship is the same and it’s not, you can do whatever you want whenever you want. You’re not hosting sex parties.

Yeah, so we had agreements and rules. We sat down and talked about what we were comfortable with, what we were not comfortable with, and it did as our relationship progressed, those things changed. Some things that I might’ve been okay with initially I wasn’t okay with anymore.

And some things that I wasn’t okay with initially I was okay with now. And so it kind of progressed. And so I appreciated getting to explore my bisexuality and my pansexuality and this other side of myself and that I had the safety of a partner to kind of explore it with.

So it was really interesting to decouple because we’ve just had an honest conversation with each other. Like we did about everything. Wow.

About sex, about our marriage, about finances, you know, who’s gonna pay the bills this month or who’s doing what. It was, yeah, I mean, we had a shared calendar. I would meet some of his partners.

Some of them I liked, some of them I didn’t. His two girlfriends now, more recently, which one he’s been with for about four years. So while we were still, while we were married still.

She’s awesome. I love her and her and I get on like great, like super great. We hang out, you know, not like all the time, but we hang out pretty regularly, which I love that.

Her and I have a friendship and a relationship even outside of that relationship with him. And then his most recent girlfriend too. This was after we had already parted ways.

But yeah, I just, I got to know her. She was really awesome. And so then I get to, again, like I get to still have this connection to him and like to that part of my life, you know, that was like really stable.

There’s really good memories. Like my wedding was awesome. I don’t know.

There’s not a lot of sadness. It was a lot of appreciation for each other and the relationship that we did have and realizing that we weren’t aligned anymore in what we wanted ultimately. And that I loved him enough to say, I can’t give that to you, you know, and the same, he couldn’t give me what I needed.

And so, yeah, so we let each other go. That’s really similar to how my last relationship ended aside from we weren’t in an open relationship, but just out of alignment. And it was a, oh, I guess we have to break up kind of thing and not really, and nobody did anything wrong.

Nobody like, it was something that we just kind of came to an agreement together. Nobody like broke up with the other one. And we had a really strong friendship and a really strong foundation of friendship.

And even though we’re still, you know, friends, it’s not the same, right? And so I still some like, and he was a really great companion and partner in terms of just like having a household together. And I don’t miss him romantically. I don’t miss him sexually.

I just, but I do miss him as like a friend and a good person that I had in my life. Yeah, that’s totally relatable. Do you find yourself like saying things or doing things where you’re like, oh, I totally got that from him.

Or like, you’re like, oh, that was a joke he would have made. Oh yeah. Yeah, I do that a lot where I say something and I’m like, that was such a joke that he would have made.

We influenced each other so much. And again, too, I think we had that same, just similar like base friendship that really I think helped us stay together as long as that we did. We could talk about anything for hours on hours on hours.

We could laugh about anything, the silliest things. And yeah, I mean, a lot of our inside jokes were like references, but there were like these niche references that nobody knew because we watched these dumb movies together, you know? So yeah, and we still have some of those inside jokes, you know, still, which is really awesome, you know? But yeah, you really get to, you know, be, you get to know this intimate side of somebody and they know that intimate side of you. It’s hard to really like kind of detach from that.

I think all the way. Have you gone, have you ever gone like a period of time where you guys were like, we just need to be apart for a little while? Like how long did you go no contact? I would say not very long, but probably like a solid two months. Okay.

And this was like last year in October, I moved out finally. So we were still living together because it made sense financially. And then it got to a point where like I couldn’t live there anymore.

And we can talk about all that stuff too, but I couldn’t live there anymore. And so I had to leave. And that was a, to me, I was like, okay, I think we should give each other like a break now.

Like we really need the separation because I don’t think, I don’t think for him, he was really processing that we weren’t in a relationship anymore. Cause even though we weren’t like touching and kissing or holding hands or really doing that anymore, we still called each other, babe. We would still be like morning, babe, you know, or have a great day, babe.

I’ll talk to you later. But I call all of my friends, babe. You know, so it was weird, but it wasn’t.

But I think we needed that like detachment. I strongly believe in doing that because I feel like your nervous system needs to reset because you just got so used to that person that you’re relying on and their presence always being there. So even if you’re not living in the same place, but you’re texting regularly, that constant communication is like feeding to your nervous system and it’s starting to shift and change.

And so your nervous system needs to readjust. And so I, so after like six months of just regular texting and still keeping in touch, I finally was like, I think we need to go no contact for a while. And I think it was maybe two to two and a half months.

Yeah. At the same time. Yeah.

And then it was almost like the texting again could be whatever it could be. It didn’t feel like, oh, I haven’t heard from them in a while or anything. Now, like I’ll go a week or two weeks without hearing from him or without texting him.

And it’s no, and like, I don’t even notice anymore. When before I’d be like, wow, that was like the first day. I remember being like, this was the first day that we’d gone without communicating in nine years.

Yeah. Or almost not in nine years, but like in, it was eight years, eight and a half years. And it just felt weird.

And so I, that’s why, and then I did tell him like, if there is something you need to tell me, you can email me. Like if there’s something important. And he did email me for some reason, a big life update, I said, that’s, you know, and it was like, okay, great.

Thanks for letting me know. So. Yeah, no, healthy.

I think that that’s healthy. Cause yeah, again, just like detaching from identity, detaching from, and me too, as being like a neurodivergent person, I definitely used him to regulate, you know, and it’s not used him, but we regulated each other, you know, and so not having that anymore, I needed to learn how to regulate on my own again and what that meant and what that looked like. So, but yeah.

Tell me what it was like when you had to like explain to your families about the openness or whatever, what that meant. Like, I can’t even like, so your, your grandmother, your grandparents were immigrants? Yeah. So your parents were born in the US, but still boomers, I’m assuming.

Gen X. Oh, younger, younger parents. Okay. My mom’s cool.

She is cool. No, yeah. Mom had me really young.

She was 15 years old. Dad was 16. And so he was a kid.

I didn’t have like a relationship with him growing up, necessarily, but his parents were in my life until they passed, which was great. And then him, so my sister, him, her and I have the same dad and different moms. So after my sister’s mom met my dad and they, you know, whatever, dated for awhile, then he, you know, kind of left her in the same situation that I left my mom in, but her and my mom then became best friends.

Women are amazing. I know. Like men take notes.

Right? Like, come on. Yeah. So I was, again, just so grateful because that mean, that meant that her and I got to grow up with each other.

She was always with us and our family, our big, gigantic, huge family. Or I was with my Nina, her mom, which I call my Nina, her mom and their family, you know? So it was great. Sorry, and I don’t know where I went with that.

My sister. Yeah, no, just kind of, I asked about your family because I was wondering, you know, like thinking immigrant household and coming back and telling them these things. So, right, telling my family that I was in an open relationship.

I didn’t necessarily share that with my family right away because, and two, they’re back in LA, so they didn’t really need to know. But my mom did, and it was against her will. Oh yeah.

Because she has been my, like, just best friend and my only person, honestly, like my entire life. I told her, because I was like, you have to know. You just have to know this is in my life.

It’s what I’m talking about. It’s what I’m doing. I can’t be the type of person who’s like, oh, don’t, you know, censor yourself in front of your mom.

Don’t say that because she’s gonna get upset. I’m like, you’re gonna get upset and we’re gonna talk about it and it’s gonna be okay. So she was very upset.

She was very upset about it. But we had, him and I and my ex-husband and I had started the podcast where we started talking about it with our comedian friends at the time. And so it was funny and it was with fellow queer people, other queer friends in queer spaces.

And so we were talking about that too and just the crossover of that in general. But I think my mom really, it really helped her to listen to the podcast. So then she heard my friends asking questions about it.

And so she got some of her answers, but not, she didn’t have to like hear it with me sitting right there in front of her, right? Or telling her. There was still like a detachment, I guess, for her. I think that’s awesome.

And so she came around. Yeah. So when did you do the podcast and for how long? Oh man, honestly, I don’t know.

I couldn’t even tell you. We were married already. We were in, okay, sorry, it’s coming.

It’s coming back. Yeah. We were married.

We were in, and I wanna say I got married in 2017. So probably 2018 or 2019. This might even have been during the pandemic.

I know we were there. I wanna say 2019. Okay.

Yeah. And how long did you do it for? At least a solid year. Okay.

Yeah, at least a solid year. So do you know about how many episodes you put out? Probably 23, somewhere around there. Okay.

Yeah, not too big of a catalog. Can people still find it? Yeah, absolutely. What’s it called? It’s called Uncomfortably Tight.

I love it. Yeah. So it’s the idea that you talk about uncomfortable conversations and you end up getting really close with your friends because you talk about these things.

It creates intimacy, you know, whether you want it to or not. So, yeah. And kind of a play on two, just vaginas that are sometimes really tight.

They can be uncomfortably tight. I think that the main concern with my family and my friends and my mom who initially heard it was just that it was all of his idea that it was something he was pushing onto me and making me do. And that essentially it’s, what do you call it? Sanctioned cheating, you know, right? And so they had these ideals about the relationship that I was in, but they didn’t know.

And it is, it’s very complicated and convoluted to kind of talk about. So having the podcast, I think for my mom, again, was a way for her to like get the minutia of all of the questions that she had and maybe didn’t even know what to ask, but that was able to like reassure her that it was my, you know, I was agreeing to doing this. I wanted to do this, you know.

I got to learn a lot about myself while having these experiences. And it was just a great opportunity for me to explore that side of my identity. Okay.

I have so many questions as you’re talking, swirling around in my head. So when I’m on the dating apps, I see, because I only date men, I’ll see them say like basically ENM is what they called it. Ethical non-monogamy.

And I was never interested in dating somebody who was married. There was one profile I saw that I decided to match with where he said that he was married and that they were no longer in a romantic relationship, but they are best friends and live together and basically don’t want to get a divorce because they want to at this point, because something like that. And I basically swiped right.

Cause everything, I mean, I was like, eh, I’m not really in a place where I’m like, looking for a husband, right? Like I’m like this, he seems cool otherwise. And if what he says is true, because you never know if they’re lying on there. I can understand that because, I could have seen myself possibly doing that with my former partner.

How did you go about dating as in an open relationship? Yeah. So there were dating apps and in the queer space, they’re an open space or other dating apps. I don’t know if you’ve heard of them, but some of them are like more kink friendly.

Like Field. Field, exactly. Field’s one of them.

And then my ex-husband started searching for like kink related, not support groups, but just like community groups. And he found one. So then that was kind of interesting too, to kind of see people in that space, operating naturally, and they’re either partnered or not partnered.

And that was the dating scene, and there was a lot of consent. It’s pro consent. Don’t touch anybody, don’t talk to anybody or not talk to anybody, but the munch space specifically was not for like exchanging numbers.

It was literally just a no pressure place for you to just meet other people who are like similar. And then outside of it, you could say, hey, let’s grab coffee next week and then do that, and then exchange information and stuff. But it was like a low pressure meet kind of place.

So, and then of course the other apps, Tinder, Bumble, not Bumble. That was more of a- Regular one. Yeah, Facebook dating.

Yeah, I still see people who put like kink friendly on regular dating apps and stuff. You’d probably have more success on. Well, I think Fields is actually really popular in Western Washington.

Yeah. Oh, that’s the fetish one, Fet Life, which I learned about. Yeah, yeah, we were on that one too.

Okay, fun. This is the most like spicy podcast episode yet. Very sex positive, I’m loving it.

Yeah. That’s so funny, because I’m just like, I did not know what to expect when you were coming to talk. I had no idea this is where things were going.

So I was not prepared. So I didn’t do any like research and whatnot, but how did people receive you? Did you, you mostly just stayed in those spaces or did you try regular dating apps where you were just like, oh, I’m looking to date and I’ve got. No, yeah, I definitely practice ethical non-monogamy and consent.

So right away letting people know that that was my situation. So there was no surprises so that they could decide for themselves if that’s something that they wanted to engage in or not. And then just meeting people downtown too and bars and especially in the area that we live in, which is very queer friendly.

It was not easy, but it was fun to make connection downtown too and get to meet people that way as well. And sometimes together and sometimes not, and so that was a rule or a boundary, which was that if we’re out together, that we’re together, you and me, our priorities is you and me. But if you’re out already by yourself or with your friends and you meet somebody, that’s okay.

And then it did progress. So first it was just sexual relationships and that’s where it stayed. And then about two or three years in is when we decided to open up to romantic relationships and actually open ourselves up to having romantic feelings and relationships with other people too.

So can I ask like when things started changing and you wanted to do things differently or maybe when things were going off of the same page? Yeah, yeah. So I noticed just naturally, I would say probably, let’s see, sorry, let me take 500 steps back. So I had dated like men and women, but nothing really serious.

I guess I didn’t have as much of a drive to be on all the apps and constantly messaging people or setting things up. I appreciate my alone time a lot and just like checking out and not having to do anything with anybody. And so when I had my friends, I had my relationship and it was taking off a lot of my time.

So I had met someone, him and I started dating. This was four years ago now. So him and I, our relationship lasted about three years.

So started while I was still married. And then about a year and a half in with him, I think that’s when I really started to realize that I was more aligned with a monogamous, probably connection, more of a monogamous relationship. And I had the last five years of experiencing, dating and doing that fun, open stuff.

And so him and I, the guy that I was dating at the time, we’re having conversations that I thought were honest about a future for us. And not wanting to be with my husband anymore, basically. And so, because again, he was very, I don’t know, energetic.

He had a drive to be on the apps and to be setting up things. He was committed to this lifestyle. Yeah.

And it did, it started to create some friction in the relationship because then I started asking, okay, where’s time for me then, right? When you’re always doing that. And when I met this other person, I was like, okay, that’s fine, right? I have a hobby, basically. But yeah, the hobby turned into developing feelings for each other and we fell in love.

And so I had made the decision that I wanted to no longer be in a romantic relationship with my husband anymore. He was fine with his girlfriends and having that fun. And I wanted to, I kind of wanted to change my lifestyle.

And a little bit of that, sorry if I can go into it, is just that I had two sets of hair products and deodorants and pillows. I had clothes at his house and clothes at my house and sometimes his girlfriend was over when I just wanted to be home alone and nobody in my space. And so it got to be where it was more of that than it was fun, than it was interesting and exploring myself still.

So it got to just be very tedious, honestly. It wasn’t very peaceful. No, and so that’s where I was just like, okay, I think I decided that that’s what I wanna do.

And again, had the conversation. At the time that we had the conversation was a year before we actually got divorced. And that was because- The conversation with your ex-husband.

With my ex-husband, yeah, about getting divorced. At that time, if I divorced him at that time, I was gonna owe him like $10,000. So we decided not to get divorced and waited a year to separate our financial stuff and kind of do that a little bit more strategically so that I wouldn’t owe him $10,000 for trying to get divorced.

So, but yeah, we still lived together. His girlfriend moved in with us for a little while too. And then I broke up with my three-year guy because it turned out he was not so honest with me about what he was doing behind my back.

What was he doing? Oh, girl. We’re gonna have to schedule another podcast for that one. I will tell you though that he is the most disgusting person that I’ve ever allowed myself to interact with in my entire life.

Wow. And I will never, I am so like aware of the red flags now to look out for because of this monster. Okay, we’re definitely doing an episode on that.

Yeah, we’re gonna have to flip the tab. Yes, yes please. I think it’s really important to share those kinds of stories like the share of the red flags that you didn’t see or that you shrugged off.

And that may help somebody. Yeah, absolutely. Also people love hearing the shit shows.

Yeah, for sure. Well, I’m glad that you came out of that and you still feel good about, you didn’t, your relationship did not end because of this other man, that you were just ready for a different life. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And I think again, to the testament to that is that I can still maintain a friendship with my ex-husband because I respect him still. And he’s one of the few men in the world, honestly, that actually trust because I don’t. And especially after the last guy, like I really don’t trust men right now.

So it’s been interesting trying to date in an environment when I don’t trust men. It can be really hard. I just had a brunch with some of my good friends and we were, a lot of them were talking about their longtime boyfriends or husbands.

And I also recently saw someone post on threads where she had experienced several times, like two or three times in her life, I think maybe three, where when she was in her worst and things got really hard, the man left her. And so we were just talking about how men abandon or like physically abandon, you know, like the, and the whole trope of like, oh, he went out for a pack of cigarettes and he never came back. And then also just like freeze, yeah, freeze, turn into a heap on the couch, stop talking to you.

Like I know somebody whose husband will just like ice them out because they just don’t want to deal. And we were just talking about how like, this is how men are victims of the patriarchy. It is, the men are like this and men are terrible because they are victims of patriarchy, not because men are inherently bad.

And so when I talk about how much I hate men and when we start, I really mean what patriarchy has done to men and it’s patriarchy. And so I think that good men, the good men, the well-adjusted men, they know that. And it doesn’t, yeah, it doesn’t hurt their feelings when we’re like, oh, men, get it together.

Because that’s what we mean. And then there are men and women who are narcissists and sociopaths and have, you know, I think that they behave differently in relationships because I feel like the arrogance that men inherit as part of the patriarchy, the kind of like untouchable, can get away with stuff, kind of entitled. Yeah, that kind of makes men more likely to behave these ways in relationships if they have those narcissistic traits or sociopathic traits than women because they’re socialized to be like more arrogant and entitled and yeah, like.

Dominate others. It is very, it’s very sad. And it makes it hard to trust, it makes it hard to trust men, really.

So what have you been doing to get yourself out there or not doing? Yeah, so last year around probably August, I wanna say, I started dating somebody I met on Tinder and I was just looking for something casual at the time. He seemed really nice. We had a couple of dates and he seemed, you know, well-adjusted and easy to talk to and respectful enough.

And he was fun. I mean, we had a lot of fun. He lived in, he lived a little bit north of here.

So that put like a natural kind of distance between it, which I appreciated. We weren’t hanging out every weekend or, you know, all up in each other’s business all the time, which was great. And then he was just like a doer.

He was like, hey, I got concert tickets, you know, for next weekend and I liked that too. Like he would ask for my time, like two weeks ahead. He wouldn’t say like, what are you doing tonight? Or, you know, so I appreciated that about him, but it was always like, hey, I got tickets to the baseball game at the Rainier Park, you know, do you wanna come? Or I got these other concert tickets, do you wanna come? And so it was great.

I had so much fun with him. And, you know, then I got to a place where I was comfortable enough to like open up to him and have like sex with him, I’m sorry, so that we could be intimate. I mean, ultimately that’s what I was dating for.

And that’s what I told him initially upfront, which was that this is what I’m dating for. I don’t have any terms, plans for like long-term. These are the needs that I need to get met, but I’m not gonna do that with just anybody.

Like I need to trust you and know that that’s okay. And so it was great, again, just like having these really frank and discussions and honest conversations. So that was fun for a little while, but he had a tendency to use the R word and I had come up, I had talked to him one time about it, about how it bothered me, especially being an autistic person and that that was not a good word to use.

I mean, there’s so many other words that we could use to describe what we’re describing and that, you know, just how it’s exclusive language, harmful language, he didn’t care. Oh, he didn’t care. I mean, it’s one thing if he’s like, I’m trying to stop, like I get it.

It’s just a habit and I’m breaking it. But to be like, that’s stupid, I don’t care. That’s, I would work with somebody who’s willing to say, thanks for correcting me, right? I want to get it right or whatever.

I didn’t know that I was harmful, open to learning. But no, he was like, ah. That’s absolutely a deal breaker.

Good for you. And obviously, wouldn’t that just make you lose attraction right away? Right away, it did, yeah. Plummeted to the floor, obviously.

And so I feel like naturally too, I’m just learning to watch out for these things and clock these things and get out earlier. Right, yeah, like that’s a sign that you didn’t, even if he thought it was dumb, obviously you cared about it. And I remember way back in college, I asked one of my roommates to stop saying it and she was like, this is my house and I can say whatever I want.

But then like a year later, like I wasn’t living there anymore, but like, I think I graduated from film school after that. And all my old roommates gave me a card and in the card she wrote like, I get it now, I’m sorry. It was so sweet.

Yeah, absolutely. And people, you know, they can redeem themselves and they can learn. So I don’t, I’m not, I don’t like to write people off necessarily, but I do like to see like, if I can bring this to you and especially if it’s somebody I semi care about.

And that was 2000, like 2007 when this happened, I think, not 2026. Right. Right, like that’s a big difference.

So then that’s another thing where I, sorry, I don’t have any tolerance for men that I have to teach these things about being a brown woman, about being a brown queer woman and the dangers that I have to live with daily because of my identity. I’m not gonna teach a man that. You need to come learn with that information.

Right, I think that, yeah. I think that there’s a, I had this conversation with somebody recently, a similar conversation. And yeah, like, I think it’s, if I can just say something to like, like if I respond and it’s kind of like, oh, okay.

And then they do their own work. As long as I don’t have, yeah, like I don’t wanna have to teach them. It’s okay if they don’t know everything.

It’s okay if they don’t always say the right thing. It’s okay if they’re not exactly where I’m at, but I also, I’m not responsible for teaching them. And sometimes I might feel like, okay, I wanna explain some things here.

But sometimes there’s a lot of times where I don’t want to. And that’s, that happens a lot. That came up when I had Hillary on the podcast.

Another bisexual, yeah. So in all of this talk, you have only mentioned men. Do you mostly date men as like, for a romantic partner future? Is that how you feel? Or you just don’t know whatever happens happens? I would say that I am more naturally inclined to date men.

I don’t know exactly why. I don’t think I haven’t like fully explored that. I would say it’s easier.

That’s funny because Hillary’s the opposite. Really? Hillary was the opposite, yeah. Oh my goodness.

Hillary was married to a woman and then dated men and then was like, I’m never, and also was like, after that bad divorce and everything, I’m men from now on. But then after a little while, she was like, nevermind. And now she’s engaged to a woman.

That’s so funny. Yeah, I’ve actually said that same thing where I’m like, no more men. I’m only woman going forward.

If I ever date again, it’ll be women. But I mean, I do. I have attraction to men.

And I would say probably a stronger attraction to men. But I also love women. I find them attractive too.

But there is a anxiety, I guess, about how to talk to women. I’ve heard this a lot. Like how to talk to women where you’re saying, like you’re actually being flirtatious.

You’re not just being nice. Like, I love your shirt or I love your haircut. Because we do that to each other.

And we call each other babe and love and you know, these cutesy little names and do these cute little things for each other. So I have found it challenging to try to date women. But I have.

I’ve dated women where I’ve like a one-on-one or two dates with a woman, but it didn’t like, you know, keep going or work out. And I would say too, I prefer a more dominant partner, I guess. So then, and I’m not that.

Do you mean more masculine or dominant? Like what do you? That’s a great question. Maybe I don’t know what I mean. I definitely need a more dominant partner in the bedroom.

So that’s where that came from. But I don’t know if I necessarily need them to be masculine or like more masculine. I do feel like I have a lot of masculine energy that I carry, but I’m small for listeners.

I’m four nine. Yeah, it’s really rare for me to meet somebody so much smaller than me. Cause I’m five foot three and pretty petite, quite petite.

And so when I, and I love that when I was like, whoa, you’re so tiny. You were like, I’m four nine. And when like, I feel like I would, if I was four nine, I’d be like, I’m four nine.

Gosh, get over it. Geez, I would hate it. But you were just like, yep.

And then you’re like, I have tiny feet. Look at my hands. I was like, this is great.

That’s so funny. No, yeah. So, so I want to like unpack this box and extrapolate.

I think from an evolutionary standpoint, yes. I think I just take to like bigger men and like taller guys just because I feel like safe and they’ll protect me. I think that’s where some of that’s coming from.

But isn’t that like almost every guy because you’re so small? That’s true. But I’ve never dated like a short king before. Oh, you should.

That’s actually a new rule of my dating, which is no more guys that are six feet or above. Those guys are the worst. No offense.

Six two makes me sick to my stomach. I always dated guys short. Like my high school boyfriend was like just maybe five, six.

Yeah. And Latino, adorable, really sweet person. It’s been many, many years, but we’re still Facebook friends.

And I think I had one boyfriend that was like maybe six, one or six, two, but it was really short. But my ex-husband was like five, nine. He’s probably listened to this being like, fuck that I’m five, 10.

I have no idea how tall he was. He might’ve been five, 10. Five, nine and a half.

But he was relatively short, but not like a short king, I wouldn’t call him. He was very average. And I think he was five, nine.

And then my partner after that was like five, 10 and a half, five, 11. And that was like a nice height for me being short. And I’d gone on dates with just very few guys over six feet tall out of the 45.

Most of them were relatively short. And I always liked, I always liked dating short guys. Like it’s comfortable for hugging and like when you’re small and, but now having a boyfriend who’s six, four with shoes on, I found, I recently found out that he’s six, three.

And this whole time I’ve been thinking he was six, four. And I’m like, that is deceitful. They all lie about their height, but really he’s like six, three and three quarters.

Six, three and a half. It’s really fun to have a really tall boyfriend too. Like I really, honestly, I’m good at either way.

I’m doing a lot less standing on chairs. Right? Yeah. So that there are benefits.

Grocery shopping. You got someone to reach the stuff on the top shelf. You don’t have to look around for something.

I mean, he just goes grocery shopping for me. Oh my God. I love it.

Yeah. I hate going grocery shopping. Lucky.

So. So you never dating women? Never? You’re straight. Okay.

Interesting. I am. I have been attracted to one woman.

Yeah. I rarely, rarely, there’s like a very specific type of woman that I’ll be like attracted to, but it’s so rare that I like don’t, I don’t look at women the way, like I don’t walk around and feel attracted to women like ever. Yeah.

It’s just not. I consider myself straight, but I’m not like, I’m like 99% straight. Maybe, you know, it just, if I met a woman that I really felt a strong connection with and felt attracted to, I would not be like, oh heck no, I’m straight.

I might be like, oh, actually, I guess maybe I’m not straight. You’d be open to exploring? Yeah. But it’s just not my, it’s just not really something I ever think about.

If I am like thinking about myself in a romantic situation is always with a man. So I don’t really, so yeah, sometimes I’ve said like, oh, I guess I’m kind of queer. I’m a little queer.

And I feel like I carry myself a little bit, a little bit bisexual. A lot of people, I think, assume that I’m queer. Did you? Yeah.

And it’s a running joke a lot of times with me and Jake and some of my friends. And that’s just how I am, I guess. But I really, like, I have no desire to explore intimacy with women at all.

It’s not, it’s not. So you said queer, kind of. Would you say maybe heteroflexible with that? I would say it’s not even enough to like give myself a label because it’s so limited.

How about this? I like kind of queer. Okay, kind of queer. How about, and I know you said that you don’t, you don’t have to talk about this if you want to.

So consent. Would you consider yourself demisexual? Do you know, have you heard that term? Yes. Okay.

And is that like to the person? Yeah. Right? So it’s, you fall in love with the person based on like, sorry, your emotional attachment and like an intellectual kind of attachment to them. After getting to know them a little bit, then you start finding someone attractive rather than the instant attractiveness.

I can be attracted to somebody with a short period of time. Like I don’t need a lot of time, but I do need to be attracted to their personality. Yeah.

So I feel like I am a little bit demisexual, but I, but like, I do feel like sexually attracted to men. Yeah. And what’s the word I’m looking for? Not impulsive and not instinctive either.

Okay. Pass it, sorry. Yeah.

Sorry. And this is not about me. I’m interviewing you, Chris.

No. Sorry. No, I always just identify as straight because it’s like, it’s not something that I even really like wrestle with.

Yeah. You know, other than like, I don’t even know, like it’s almost not worth it to even mention because it’s not something, and like until it happens, I think. So a lot of times I just say like, if it happens, it happens.

For the ease of conversation, it’s like, I identify as straight. I only date men. I’m not, I didn’t, I didn’t put my, for the two years, well, really like 17 months of dating that I did before I met Jake, I never set my dating apps to include women.

I didn’t want to. I didn’t feel curious about it. Once I set to include non-binary.

Yeah. Just to kind of see, and there was like hardly any non-binary on there. So I just didn’t really make a difference.

Yeah. It’s just, it’s not, it’s not a curiosity I really have. It’s just kind of like a thing that might happen because it’s happened like once.

So, and I try to think back like in childhood too. Like, did I ever have a crush on a girl? Never. Never.

No. There was one girl who I remember thinking was really cool, who was a little bit more boyish. And I’m wondering like, was that a crush? But it wasn’t, I don’t know if it really was, but I don’t really think, yeah, that’s how I, that’s how I feel like.

Right. Okay. I never, I never had crushes on girls growing up.

So I don’t think that I. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like you have healthy admiration though for women, right? And just their capabilities, how magical they are.

Yeah, for sure. For reaching goals and achieving, you know. I don’t want to get naked with them really.

Yeah. I don’t want to get. Yeah.

That makes sense. Yeah. Except for the one crush that I had.

Yeah, I think that’s one. Who’s probably more non-binary than anything. Yeah.

Yeah. So non-binary. I would be open to dating somebody non-binary.

Do you think that, I’m sorry. No, this is fine. People are going to love this.

Do you think that if you maybe grew up in a different age, would you consider yourself non-binary? I feel very, very connected to being a woman. Yeah. Yeah.

So I don’t know. I don’t think so, but maybe. Like, I do feel like I am a little, like I have plenty of men’s clothing that I like to wear.

And sometimes I’m wearing completely all men’s clothing. Yeah. And I don’t feel like I’m, I don’t, I mean, I definitely just feel very connected to being a woman that I don’t think I, but I wouldn’t be offended if somebody thought I was non-binary or called me a they-them.

Like, it’s not, I don’t feel like, like I’d be, I’d happily be a she-they. Yeah. But to me, being a she is fine.

I don’t need to be a she-they. So. No, I kind of agree.

I think I’ve always felt like kind of a tomboy always, but I still have a strong connection to my femininity and my womanhood as well. I never wanted to be, I never felt like a tomboy, but I always kind of wanted to be because I thought it was cool. Like the way they dress? Like that was a cool girl.

If she like was with the guys and like played sports and like, she was like strong and you know, she was a cool, cool one. Not like other girls. Yeah.

So yeah, that’s interesting. I never, no one’s ever, I never really thought about, yeah, being non-binary never seemed like something that called to me, but it’s also something that doesn’t like detect, like it doesn’t make me shy away either. Interesting.

So you kind of feel the same way? Yeah, I do. I don’t think that it’s important enough for me to like, declare, I guess, maybe, but the same, if somebody considered me, they, them, or like, I wouldn’t mind. And also, yeah, just because sometimes how I dress.

If somebody, and if somebody lumped me into like, oh, you know, like queer people go over there, Elisa go over there. I’d be like, okay, yeah. I like, I’m just, yeah, I’m just me.

And sometimes that comes off a little gay. Yeah. And I would say I identify more as queer than bisexual.

I don’t necessarily use that term anymore, but yeah, and queer is just more all encompassing, I want to say, but yeah. Yeah. When I was a teenager, my brothers told me that some of their friends thought I was a lesbian and I realized it was because I did not flirt with some, like when, if I didn’t flirt with them, cause I was like the younger sister, like right to the teenage boys.

And so I would just be like, not laugh at their jokes, their stupid jokes and not go and flirt with them because I’m like, you guys are stupid. I don’t like you. And I think also when I would be like younger and in bars and I would not laugh at men’s jokes and not flirt with them because I, if I did not think they were funny and worth flirting with, I didn’t care.

And so I often got pegged as being like, oh, she must not like men. And really it’s like, well, I kind of don’t like men, but I’m still, unfortunately, still sexually attracted to men. And I do love so many men.

There are a lot of great men. Yes, gotta be clear. Worth loving.

Yeah. So what’s going on now? So now I am single by choice, but I just re-downloaded Tinder on my phone. You’re gonna have to keep us updated.

Can I tell you what my profile says? Yes. I think it’s funny, but you tell me. I’m a tiny little.

So it says 84 coupe, 100,000 miles, normal wear and tear. Okay. That’s my profile.

That’s it? That’s it. Is it Tinder? Yes. But then you have like your preferences and stuff listed.

Yeah. Yeah. Like looking for short-term.

Yeah. I think it’s what I selected. Right now you’re not looking for anything serious.

Yeah. And the reason for that is because I am planning to move back home. Oh yeah.

At the end of this year. Back to LA. Well, this has been a lot of fun talking about sexuality and gender and yeah.

And I am here for it. I wish I had a better listener question for the time that like had to do with this kind of stuff. But I did get a question recently through social media asking when you are dating and you’re going on dates and you meet somebody and you like them fine.

There’s nothing wrong with them. When do you call it? When do you say, okay, thanks, but no thanks? I say as soon as possible. Yeah.

And I think a good indicator to know is if you’re asking yourself that question is to know, but yeah, the sooner the better because it’s just don’t, you know, don’t waste your time. Don’t waste their time. And we were kind of saying earlier too, like if it’s not a hell yes, it’s a hell no.

You know, you don’t want to give somebody hope that maybe it might turn into something when you know now that it won’t. Yeah. So give them that peace of mind, let them go out and find somebody else who is more aligned and wants what they want and thinks they’re, you know, the sun shines out of their ass.

Maybe you don’t, but maybe somebody else will. Somebody else will. Yes.

And I agree with you mostly. I think that if you’ve only gone on like one date or two dates and you’re like, my question would be instead of, is it a hell yes? And if it’s not, then it’s a hell no, was do I genuinely want to see them again? Am I looking forward to going out with them again? And if the answer is yes, even if it’s not like because I think it could be something, if the answer is yes, just because you like who they are and you want to spend time with them, I think that’s enough to go on another date. Yeah.

And especially if it’s only been like one to three dates at that point, if the answer is eh, kinda, it’s probably a no. Yeah. Are you looking forward to it? Are you like, oh, I got this, I gotta talk to them again and I’m excited about it because I know that for myself, I had that feeling like, oh, I can’t wait to see him, I can’t wait to see him, but I also was like, my protective mode was in, was up and saying, but I think he’s just a friend, like, but I don’t think he’s a romantic interest and this was a long time ago.

And it was really the only reason why, but I would still just be like, oh, I wish I could tell him this right now or oh, I wish he was here, I should have invited him to this thing. And even though I was having those kind of, that excitement, my mind was still saying, but it’s not a thing. Just friend.

Yeah, because I think I had a lot of other things, like not letting me get too excited about a person. Yeah. So I think that’s why it’s a good question.

And honestly, even if I haven’t met somebody yet, if I’m dating and I matched with them on a dating app and I’m like not looking forward to the date, I cancel it. Like there’s, that’s just kind of the, I don’t set a lot of rules, but that’s one of the rules that I had set for myself when I was dating after I forced myself to go on some dates when even like my gut knew that they weren’t gonna be a good match. Yeah.

So. No, I like what you’re saying. In those situations, really listen to your gut.

Yeah. And. A thousand percent.

Yeah. Yeah. No, but I like what you’re saying.

There should be some timeframe, right? So maybe it’s the first or second date. Don’t cut it off too soon. Like you’re barely getting to know this person.

So maybe gave it another chance or two. But yeah, I would say if you’re like five or six dates in and you’re still like, and you’re not excited about it or responding to them or even having that like, kind of leaning away, literally leaning away. Then yeah, don’t let that drag on.

And clear is kind. Yes. So be clear with your intentions to the other person as well, because they also deserve to find somebody who’s more aligned with them.

So don’t hold on to somebody either, for selfish reasons, like. Yeah. Have good intentions to let people find the right people for themselves.

Yeah. But yeah. Nobody likes being put in the back pocket.

I feel like that’s been people’s intentions before when they say they want to be friends too. If I actually want to be friends with them, I will. But if I don’t really care about being friends with them, I don’t.

Yeah. You don’t need that. It’s a bunch of clutter.

That’s right. Thank you, Chris, for coming on the podcast and sharing your unique story. And if you end up accruing more dating stories this summer.

Yes. I’d love to have them. I plan to.

And then. Going out with a bang. Yeah.

We’ll have you share the story of your last relationship sometime soon. Yeah. That’s a fun one to get into.

Great. All right. Thank you.

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Thank you for listening to Ask Elisa. I’m your host, Elisa Sparkman. This episode was produced by me and a guy I met on a dating app. Audio engineering, editing, and music by Jacob Patterson.